This post will make a lot more sense if you read this one first. Basically this is a conversation I had on Facebook and later the “friend” stated that she had called me out on my “bullshit.” Below in italics is what she said and a rundown of my responses to her. Far from calling me out, it seems that she was the one that was incorrect the majority of the time.
Furthermore you did not call me out on my “bullshit.” Lets go over what your statements were during our conversation and how they were proven incorrect.
1. “So you’re pro-life, good for you, do you want a freaking cookie for it? You think all life is precious, and that all cells once held life. Does that mean you judge people for exfoliating, since all cells once held life and by exfoliating you are essentially killing these cells, or judge women for having periods because unfertilized eggs are living cells and by having a period you are ‘killing’ these potential children?”
“That’s a biological fact, there is no difference in the cells of your body that die everyday and the cells that make up a fetus.”
A fertilized egg is very different from a skin cell. Biologically the cells of a fetus are genetically unique from the mothers and therefore a separate human being. Your statements are scientifically incorrect.
“A skin cell is very different from a fertilized egg. A zygote has it’s own genetic code that is completely unique from any other human being. It is not just a part of the mother’s body. At that time it is a unique human being that is developing and will continue to develop even after he or she is born. It is not just a cell it is a living organism defined as, “a complex structure of interdependent elements constituted to carry on the activities of life by separately-functioning but mutually dependent organs.” Once the egg meets the sperm and forms a zygote it begins a complex sequence of events that allows it to develop and grow. Your skins cells, an unfertilized egg etc… “cannot exhibit coordinated efforts towards a higher level of organization.” ”
2. “You claim that a fetus can feel pain at 9 weeks after conception, which has been disproved systematically by medical professionals. The earliest that MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS have realized fetal pain can be felt is 20 weeks, because that is when the spino-thalamic pathways (which is how you actually feel pain) develop.”
Yes you do have a point here and my information in this one area was lacking. However there is still research being done in this area so it is left to be seen what they will find out.
3. “You bring up again and AGAIN that you could have aborted your son until the 24th week mark, which is actually very lenient since many states now prohibit abortions after a fetus has reached “viability” and that can happen even before a woman knows she is pregnant depending on the specific state laws.”
“Viability is actually a more complicated issue, since in some states they disallow abortions after the fetal heartbeat can be detected. Only a handful of states will allow abortions by week 24, most have a cutoff date well before that time.”
I brought up that fact to make a point. According to the Guttmancher Institute (associated with Planned Parenthood) most states ban abortions, except in life threatening circumstances, after viability, which as stated above in my earlier comments is generally considered 24 weeks. A very small number ban abortions after 20 weeks except in life threatening circumstances. The definition of viability in most states is when the child could possibly survive outside the womb with or without assistance. Which as stated above is usually considered after 24 weeks.
Furthermore you state that some states disallow abortions after the fetal heartbeat can be detected, which is “Generally from 6 ½ -7 weeks is the time when a heartbeat can be detected and viability can be assessed. A normal heartbeat at 6-7 weeks would be 90-110 beats per minute” (American Pregnancy Association). There are no states that ban abortions after that point. Both of your “facts” are incorrect and proven incorrect by non-bias sources.
4. “Before 1973, when abortions became legal, it is estimated that there were between 200,000 and 1.2 million illegal abortions performed each year. These were performed by unlicensed people and usually were in dirty conditions that led to the deaths of many women. Women would die in horrible agony, even in the hospital, because they would not be allowed treatment until they told the doctors what happened. If they told then they would be arrested and put in prison. Women who didn’t die were scarred and usually had to endure mind-numbing agony for days if not weeks. Women in desperate situations will always seek to end a pregnancy if they do not want it, whether or not it is legal. I support their right to choose 100%, because if I had to make a decision that could impact my entire life I would want as many options as I could.”
I found this information after our debate but if you are reading this you may want to look into these facts. Most illegal abortions were done by licensed physicians, after hours in their offices. Also in 1960 Planned Parenthood informed everyone that “90% of all illegal abortions are presently done by physicians.” The death toll was greatly exaggerated. A quote from Bernard Nathanson who was a co-founder of NARAL, “It was always ‘5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year.’ I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the ‘morality’ of our revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics? The overriding concern was to get the laws [against abortion] eliminated and anything within reason that had to be done was permissible” The correct death toll figures average 250 deaths per a year in the five years leading up to 1973.
Furthermore I cited multiple cases where women had died or had abortions in deplorable conditions within the past few years. The most prominent and recent of these was Gosnell.
5. “My huge problem with “Pro-Life” supporters is that they are all up in arms to “protect’ fetuses and make sure that they are born, but afterwards they couldn’t care less about them. . . . Pro-life supporters care about fetuses, but don’t care about children.”
This is an irrelevant arguement. Both pro-choice and pro-life advocates adopt and foster children, as well as raising their own. I know quite a few pro-life people who have adopted or fostered children. As I told you I plan on both fostering and adopting after I finish college and we get our own home. I have planned on doing that since I was a young teenager.
6. “Pregnancy is still very dangerous and still kills women every day. This ‘natural process’ is very demanding on the human body and usually comes with a million complications that can occur, and this is even before a woman gives birth.”
True, life itself comes with a million complications that can occur, but we continue to live it. Back to statistics, 16.7 maternal deaths per 100,000 in the United States in 2008. Smoking Attributable deaths per a year is 284.8 (average) per 100,000 in the United States in 2001.
7. “You have a parasite (a creature that takes the nutrients that it needs and gives nothing back) living inside you for 9 months and then you give birth to it. If you have no complications then that means you’ve lucked out, but there are women who have died because they got pregnant.”
A fetus is scientifically not a parasite. Without quoting the many sources I listed on my post, here is the rundown of the facts.
A) A parasite is of a DIFFERENT species than it’s host.
” By definition, parasites are those animals which occupy the last niche, i.e. live in or on another species, their host. Parasitism is a form of symbiosis, an intimate relationship between two different species.”
“It is often a life-long relationship for the parasite, which cannot survive without its host.”
B) A parasite is from an outside source, it is invading the hosts body. A baby is from an inside source (the mothers egg).
C) The parasite is also generally dependent on the host during its REPRODUCTIVE stages.
“Life cycles differ greatly between major types of parasites and are generally classified as direct or indirect (Table 1). Direct life cycles do not require an intermediate host (Fig. 1A). For direct life cycles, only a definitive host is required: the species in which the parasite reaches sexual maturity and produces progeny. Indirect life cycles may involve one or more intermediate hosts (Fig. 1B and C). Intermediate hosts are required by the parasite for completion of its life cycle because of the morphological and physiological changes that usually take place in the parasite within those hosts.” (pg 2 of PDF) This document also shows figures outlining common life cycles of parasites.
D) We were built to carry a child. That is why we have a uterus. The child is not a parasite invading the uterus. It was meant to be there as part of the reproductive cycle which allows us to continue as a species.
8. From above, “You have a parasite (a creature that takes the nutrients that it needs and gives nothing back)”
– After the birth of their first child many women found that their menstrual cramps were much better
– Pregnancy and breastfeeding can reduce a women’s breast cancer risk
– Pregnancy can significantly reduce the risk of ovarian and endometrial cancer. The more full-term pregnancies you have, the greater the benefit.
– Risk of Multiple sclerosis is reduce. This is currently on the rise due to many women putting off pregnancy until their 30’s.
– “Heart disease is the biggest killer of women in the US, but one study found that older women who’d been pregnant four or more times were about half as likely to die from stroke than those with fewer or no pregnancies.”
– Breastfeeding for at least 7 months can also reduce your risk of heart disease, diabetes and high blood pressure.
- If You Are Going to be Passive Aggressive at Least Get Your Facts Straight (controlledchaoschristiancourage.wordpress.com)
- Why I am Pro-Life (controlledchaoschristiancourage.wordpress.com)